enoughisenough, the WT is not saying that during the 1000 years that no one will allowed to do evil deeds. Instead the WT is saying that during the 1000 years that no one will allowed to practice evil deeds. That is a distinction. For example, according to the Bible every human alive commits sin, but also according to the Bible not every human practices sin. I am surprised that some people (ones who are JWs or who have been JWs) on this site don't recognize that distinction. Folks, please read 1 John 2:1-6 (1984 NWT) and 1 John 3:4-8 (1984 NWT) and please compare them with each other. The WT in various articles have explained the difference between doing a sin and repeatedly doing sin (practicing sin), and their 1984 NWT translation of 1 John 3:4-9 is careful to use the word "practices" (the some word used in the WT article from 2022 which was quoted, and the 1965 article says "practicing"), unlike how many other Bibles translate 1 John 3:4-9 (for example in those verses the RSV, the NRSV, and the NKJV say "commits sin" instead of "practices sin").
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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41
Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
Though I didn't plan to make a further post in this topic, I have changed my mind. I now say the following.
Note that September 2022 Study Watchtower - p. 18 par. 14 says the WT is stating a change of doctrine. Paragraph 14 of that article says in part the following.
'In the past, we understood Jesus’ words to refer to the deeds the resurrected ones will practice after their resurrection; that is, some will come to life and practice good things while others will come to life and practice vile things. However, note that Jesus does not say that those who have just come out of the memorial tombs will do good things or will practice vile things. He uses the past tense. He speaks of those who “did good things” and those who “practiced vile things.” This indicates that these actions took place before their death. That makes sense, does it not? After all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world. The unrighteous must have practiced these vile things before their death.'
That shows that the WT (in their September 2022 Study article of the Watchtower called 'Is Your Name in “the Book of Life”?') is stating a change in doctrine, just as I mentioned in my earlier post. Further in the above quote the context within the paragraph makes it clear, when read carefully, that the ones spoken of in the quote are those currently practicing vile things, and those who are dead who had done such in the past, and those who will do such before they die and later become resurrected.
Regarding the September 2022 Study article of the Watchtower called 'Is Your Name in “the Book of Life”?', page 18 paragraph 14 of that article is not contradicting page 19 paragraph 18 of the same article. BoogerMan, Are you so intent in find contradictions in the WT's words, that you didn't try to see if the WT meant their words in page 18 paragraph 14 in a way which does not contradict their words of
page 19 paragraph 18 of the same article?People sometimes say things which though not being a contradiction seem (at first thought) to others to be a contradiction, until the others figure out what the people meant. It is important to figure out what is the intended meaning, rather than automatically assuming there is a contradiction. For example, there are statements in the Bible which appear to be clear contradictions, but upon careful analysis some of those statements are later discerned to not be contradictions. Many words have a range of meanings, and thus in some sentences a word (or a brief phrase) has one meaning but in another sentence the exact same word (or the brief phrase) has a different meaning.
Folks, notice that the change of doctrine stated in the above mentioned article came shortly before the WT announced new governing body members in early 2023 and shortly before Anthony Morris III ceased being a governing body member. Do you think there is connection between such?
The above stated change in doctrine is much more consistent with the Bible than the WT's prior doctrine in the matter. I have noticed that a number of the WT's doctrinal changes in the past 10 years are much more in agreement with the Bible than the older doctrinal versions which were replaced by them. For example, one the doctrinal improvement is the one which says that Gog of Magog is not Satan the Devil. A careful reading of the OT Bible shows that when it writes about Gog of Magog it is writing about a human or group of humans (or of a human government or a group of human governments) instead of about a supernatural being.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
I have now drastically revised this post after noticing that in Boogerman's most recent post in this topic he/she is quoting from a 1965 WT article and comparing it to a September 2022 WT article. At first I didn't notice that because in an earlier post he/show was comparing two paragraphs from one September 2022 article. I have now read part of the 1965 article.
It appears to me that in the September 2022 article the WT slightly changed their doctrine which they had taught in the w65 1/1 p. 20 par. 5, to say that no one will being practicing vile things after they are resurrected, though also indicating some people might do some vile things after they are resurrected.
I don't plan to make further posts in this topic thread.
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Betty Georges - The Female Helper to the Governing Body
by MillennialDawn inbetty georges is listed as a helper to the governing body service committee, according to this page on the website: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/governing-body-jw-helpers/.
anybody know anything about her?.
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Disillusioned JW
https://www.everything-birthday.com/name/f/Betty says the following.
"Betty is predominantly a girls name, with 99.64% of Bettys being girls, and 0.36% being boys.
In the United States there have been a total of 3619 males named Betty, and 999979 females given the name".
I wonder if most of the males named Betty were intersexual (hermaphrodites) and thus if their sex (male or female) was ambiguous when born (especially if they were born before genetic tests were available). Another possibility that maybe they looked more like girls when they were born, thus causing the doctor and the parents to think the newborn baby was a girl. For example, maybe their testes had not yet descended. See https://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions/undescended-testes-cryptorchidism which says the following.
"Undescended testicles, also known as cryptorchidism, is a fairly common and normally painless congenital condition in which one or both of a baby's testicles (testes) have not moved into the proper position. One to 2 percent of male infants are affected. ...
Premature babies are affected by undescended testicles at a higher rate. The more premature your baby is, the higher the chance of having an undescended testicle."
Another possibility is that maybe in many cases the parents really wanted a girl to be born instead of a boy, and/or maybe they were expecting a girl to be born, and thus gave the baby a girl's name. Another possibility is that the parents of the child didn't know the name is overwhelmingly a girl's name. https://babynames.com/name/betty says the following.
"The name Betty is primarily a female name of English origin that means God Is My Oath.
diminutive form of Elizabeth" -
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
BoogerMan I noticed that you said the following to me. "... thanks for your opinion on what you think the WT is saying regarding "practicing" evil deeds, and that you agree with it". But I did not mean that I agree with that idea of the WT. I just meant I recognize the WT has such a teaching. Regarding what the book of Revelation says, there is much about it which I don't know how to interpret. For some examples consider the following.
The order of many events in the book of Revelation don't seem to be same order as the verses mentioning those events. It is very unclear to me to what degree various descriptions are figurative. Are they mildly figurative or very figurative and very symbolic? For example are a literal 1/3 of trees and 1/3 of grass to be burned up, and is such supposed to happen before the actions of that which is symbolized by the various wild beasts? Do those trees and grass instead represent certain groups of people, and if so, which groups of people? The WT says the those trees and/or grass are Christendom (or the leaders of such and/or the people of such), but I don't think Revelation at all is saying that Christians (even that which the WT calls the people of Christendom) will have woes sent upon them by God as punishment. The book is written to provide hope to Christians, though some of the verses in chapters two through three criticize some congregations of Christians.
When Revelation 20:5 says the rest of the dead do not come to life until the 1000 years have added, I don't know if it means that literally (with no resurrections taking place during the 1000 years) or if it means it in the sense that the WT's book called Babylon the Great says it, or in some other sense. The Babylon book points out that that verse is not in some of the oldest manuscripts of Revelation chapter 20, and thus I wonder if the verse is a corruption of the text (something which was added to the text).
Regarding Revelation 6:2 I don't know if the verse is trying to convey the idea that the rider of the white horse is Jesus Christ, or the antichrist, or a false religious leader, or a ruler of a human government, or someone else, or an organization (such a government or empire).
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Happy (Substitution) Resurrection Sunday !
by Sea Breeze inwhy is the substitution atonement hidden under piles of nonsense in wt literature?
the bottom line is that those who join the the wt as adults, found a religion that agrees with their personality and nature.
yes, they will say jesus makes it possible, but each jw gets to individually take credit for their own salvation.
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Disillusioned JW
Thank you Sea Breeze for your reply to my question; you gave excellent answers.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
I am saying that the WT article is saying that during the millennium no person will practice evil deeds, tough some people might commit some evil deeds. According to the WT, during the millennium some badness (and maybe even some evil deeds) will take place, but according to the WT God will intervene to prevent people from making a habit (a practice) of committing evil deeds.
But keep in mind that though I believe the WT (and maybe even the book Revelation) is teaching the above, I also believe there will not be a 1000 year rule of Jesus Christ in which Satan will be in the abyss. That is because I am now an atheistic naturalist who is convinced that (despite what the Bible teaches) Satan the Devil never existed, that Jesus never became resurrected, and that Jesus never lived in heaven.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
Notice that the WT also used the word "practiced" as a modifier on page 19 paragraph 18.
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Why are JW's THIS blind?
by BoogerMan ini had a conversation about this 22 carat gold contradiction with a couple of zealous jw's a couple of days ago.. even their personal "explanations" contradicted each other as they tried justify their cognitive dissonance!.
an absolute delight to witness such absurdity.. "after all, no one will be allowed to practice vile things in the new world.
the unrighteous must have practiced these vile things [john 5:29] before their death.
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Disillusioned JW
ExBethelitenowPIMA is correct in saying that the WT did not contradict themselves in regards to what is quoted in the opening post of this topic thread. Months ago in a different topic thread the same subject was discussed and I explained there that there was no contradiction by the WT in that matter.
BoogerMan and others, on p. 18 paragraph 14 the WT defines what they mean by a person who is resurrected as an unrighteous person. That kind of person is defined by the WT as one who practiced vile things before their death and subsequent resurrection. Furthermore, when the WT said "The unrighteous must have practiced these vile things before their death" the WT is writing about a death which was experienced before their resurrection during the 1000 years, and thus a death experienced before the start of the 1000 years - not a death during the 1000 years (as punishment/execution) and not a death at the end of the 1000 years. It also says that during the 1,000 years no one will be allowed to practice vile things, it does not say that during the 1000 years that no one will be allowed to do a vile thing. That is an important distinction to keep in mind. There is a big difference between doing something once and making a practice of doing something.
On page 19 paragraph 18 the WT says that those who are resurrected during the 1000 years will be judged by the deeds (good and/or bad) they do during the 1,000 years. But, notice that on page 18 the WT used the word "practiced" as a modifier.
During the years when I was an active baptized JW (in the 1980s through the 1990s) the WT literature explained what they meant by their use of phrase "practice sin" (instead of simply saying "sin" or "do a sin") and in one verse in the WT's 1984 NWT NT (in a letter of John, I think) they draw a distinction between that phrase of "practice sin" (or something close to it) and the phrase "commit a sin" (or a phrase close to it). Basically the one practicing vile things are ones who repeatedly do vile things, rather than those who did a vile only once (or perhaps only twice or so). It is kind like one of he criteria the JW elders use when deciding if a guilty JW should be disfellowshipped or not, or if the person should be publicly reproved or not. Namely, the elders try to determine if the person made a practice of doing the wrong, a habit of doing the wrong, or not.
The WT teaching of the judgment of people during the 1000 years is more comparable to what currently happens to people in probation (such as by the prison system, by an employer to an employee, and by parents to their child), than it is comparable to the doctrine of purgatory. The purgatory doctrine says that people will suffer in purgatory (while being judged) until they have been purified.
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Has the Governing Body EVER apologized for anything?
by Wild_Thing ingeoffrey jackson testified to the arc that the governing body has apologized for things in the past, so an apology to sexual abuse victims is "perceivable".
what has the governing body ever apologized for?.
22 q. just on that point, mr jackson, has the governing body23 considered apologising to survivors of child sexual abuse24 at the hands of elders within the organisation?25 a. i haven't been in any discussions with regard to that.26 27 q. is that something that you foresee might happen ‐ in 28 other words, that an apology at least be considered?29 a. the governing body has apologised on other matters, so30 for me to say ‐ i can't speak collectively for everybody, 31 but we have apologised on things in the past, in other32 areas, so it is perceivable.. .
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Disillusioned JW
Which article was it, regarding the plane? What content did the bound volume have to replace both articles? I wish to check my 1980 bound volume of the Awake!.